#like i know that the inquisitor is important and all but i don't get that feeling

[unreadpoppy]

I think the biggest reason I struggled to connect with the Inquisitor as a character is because of the 'chosen one' trope

[sheyshen]

i think i'm gonna need to block all veilguard related tags until i get my hands on the game even though i really want to share like art of the new crew and stuff because i don't want to see more spoilers that makes me go hmmm lol

[sith-shenanigans]

usually I think yes but like. they know about 1-3 of the Councilors. and maybe a Sith who’s at the top of their personal command chain. basically average “who is in the government?” levels of knowledge, including there being people who are absolute weird nerds about Sith politics who can name all the Councilors and their second-in-commands and follow tabloids about them and everyone else is just. no. why. yes half the department has a crush on Darth Marr despite having no kriffing idea what’s under the mask but we’re not like THAT about it,

Does the average citizen know who the members of the Dark Council are? Like could a random person name a single Dark Lord?

[vir-bellanaris]

The ending was fine, but what really bothered me what the fact that Lavellan is, once again, cast aside in second position. Solas calls her "vhenan", writes her letters, says his feelings for her will never change etc... and continues destroying her world because he's sad over another woman. At the end, it's Mythal who changes his mind, not Lavellan.

And once again, it's Lavellan who takes agency, who shows interest, by insisting to go with him, by starting the kiss, by touching his back while he simply stands there, hands crossed without even looking at her. I don't know, I'm glad they're finally together, but it really felt like Lavellan is the one who's pining over this relationship, not Solas.

Mythal is essentially Solas' creator. She "pulled him from the Fade" and gave him a purpose, even if it was one that twisted his nature. He was bound to her service. I don't believe at all they were romantically involved, despite speculation in and out of the Veilguard game. Mythal herself consistently treats him as an "old friend" and even as a child, despite their ages being the same.

Their affection for each other runs deep. And is an ancient bond. Lavellan doesn't have that rapport with him, no matter how much they love each other.

At the end of Trespasser Solas refuses to allow Lavellan to follow, not wanting her to see what he becomes. And I think we the player saw what he became, he tried to become more the Dread Wolf than Solas.

You cannot get the happy ending without the Inquisitor, so I would say they are in fact very important. When Solas says "thank you" during that final scene he is addressing directly the Inquisitor. (Unless Lavellan kisses him then he says "Thank you, Rook")

Solas loves Lavellan. She is his heart. For the past decade or more he has denied his heart and tried to harden it against those who care for him. He "killed" Mythal when even she tried to dissuade him from his course.

It took Rook, Mythal AND the Inquisitor together to convince him to stop.

As for the animations of the final scene. I couldn't be more pleased. They kissed. Despite Solas just having an emotional breakdown, demon blood in his mouth, and probably a concussion. Yes, Lavellan was the one to reach out but I wasn't expecting any different.

He doesn't want to subject her to the "terrible" place he is going to atone for what he has done. She was the one who stepped forward and this time insisted she go with him. And he gave her zero argument, just one warning it won't be easy for them

I wish he had reached for her hand there at the end. But as she touched his shoulder it was his magic that enveloped her as well, making sure to take her with him to where his destination lies.

Also adding onto this because the way he looks at Lavellan in this game is more meaningful to me than any touch they could've animated. I mean cmon...look at this and tell me he isn't deeply in love with her.

I mean PLEASE

And in the kiss animation you can see his mouth moving as he kisses her back eeeeeeeeee okay...I'm done.

[abyssal-ilk]

A thing that people always forget when chastising vivienne for being so apathetic to cole is the fact that she is a circle mage. People whom are forced to learn that you should not trust demons nor spirits or else they’ll put you down AS A RITE OF PASSAGE. Think back to what Mouse says in DAO. “Keep your wits about you, mage; true challenges never end.” She knows that for the rest of her life, demons will tempt her and try to possess her. She has seen mages turn into abominations, knows how they get them- of course she will support templars who have the skills to subdue them. And now to have a spirit scurrying around without supervision what is the last bastion against a Tevinter Sidereal… I too would be worried as hell if i were a circle mage.

EXACTLY!

not only is vivienne a circle mage, but there are also a few other factors that play into it that make cole so untrustworthy to her. vivienne underwent her harrowing when she was young– in fact, she was the youngest mage to have ever gone through a harrowing and survived it. we don't get to learn much about what she went through during her harrowing, but we DO have this banter between her and cole:

harrowings on their own are already traumatic enough, and with the added insistence from the circles that all spirits and demons are dangerous (which we see vivienne repeat above, "all it can do is harm."), it makes complete sense on why vivienne would be so put-off by cole! especially given how kind he is! she thinks that kindness is a ploy, and why wouldn't she if her harrowing was anything like the warden's in DAO?

and then that's not even acknowledging the fact that cole isn't just ANY spirit. he's the ghost of the spire. he's killed mages before and admits to doing so. and even though he was wrong to do so and realizes that what he did was wrong, that does not mean that vivienne automatically has to suddenly be okay with what cole did. of course vivienne takes cole being the ghost of the spire harder than everyone else in the inner circle. she is the only circle mage there. it is entirely plausible that she sees cole as a threat and views herself as being the person most able to recognize that threat because of what she was taught. it's why she struggles so much to empathize with cole on any level.

ive already talked about this briefly on another post, but cole is also fairly antagonistic to vivienne as well. it's easy to look at their dynamic and think that, well, cole is just trying to help vivienne but he... isn't? his version of helping her is prying into her thoughts without permission and continuing to do so even after she has shown clear discomfort with it.

cole drags her worst memories and thoughts out publicly in front of not just vivienne, but the rest of the party and anyone else who may happen to be standing near them. it's DANGEROUS, what he does, because vivienne is a player of the game. her position at court is a precarious one, and to have someone like cole who can just pick into her brain whenever he wants with no repercussions? it's scary! it's scary because vivienne has no defense against it, especially if the player supports cole and downplays the harm he does. and what can vivienne do about it? she's an ally of the inquisitor, and that makes her cole's ally by proxy. telling cole to stop doesn't work, insulting him doesn't work, trying to get the inquisitor to intervine doesn't work– nothing seems to deter cole.

which is why THIS piece of dialogue is so important to me:

despite everything i've said above, vivienne still cannot help but care about cole. no matter how dangerous he is, no matter what she was raised to believe, she still cares about him and worries for him. their dynamic is SO interesting to me and i really wish people dug into it a bit more rather than just dismiss it as vivienne being needlessly cruel to cole. it's so much more than that.

[bhaalstemple]

i finished the game and veilguard was a disappointment lol

spoilers below

the way they butchered solas' character by just making him be led by the memory of mythal; no self-righteousness, savior complex, it was all done bc he wanted to honor mythal

why are the venatori worshipping elgar'nan and not a single elf. ????

how they made mythal far more important than lavellan to solas to the point for a moment i thought she was solas' ex (thank god it was clarified at the end she was only "solas' oldest friend")

the companions are so... lifeless. cheers to bellara for being the only one that feels like an actual human being and not an agglomeration of bad executed tropes (even if at the beginning she was)

the way mythal didn't end up being a villain, when she actively abused and groomed solas (and also morrigan btw) and it made all the sense in the world because she yearned for a reckoning and bring her revenge, a thing she has yearned for and been planning for a millennia because her anger is that strong... but no she just gave it up

the way morrigan's themes of parental abuse (breaking the cycle of abuse) go to shit after she embraced mythal's memories like.... as someone who has also an abusive mother that i broke contact with this made me want to fucking scream lol

morrigan's character also doesn't sound like her AT ALL, why is this woman smiling and being cocky, she's a scholar, a professional, a woman who carries knowledge that burdens her and trauma at the hands of a mother who should've cared for her. and how protective she was a kieran shows how private she is. what the hell. she would not be THAT friendly with strangers lol

and mythal being the only one who truly could change solas' mind at the end (just thinking abt it makes me want to punch a hole in the wall) + the anticlimactic departure of lavellan to the fade with solas is so fucking bad; because of the message it gives (this world is not worth-living for + a woman should spend the rest of her life and sacrificing herself for a man who put another random woman before her) and its joyless execution

if you get any other ending, the inquisitor doesn't even appear. lmfao. bye.

and lets not talk about the post-ending credits scene bc thats actually the thing that i hated the most. it makes all the themes and writing of bioware completely meaningless lol

the funny thing is that i have known for years where would bioware go with dragon age's story and 95% of my theories were correct, but me, someone who is not a writer, would've made a far more compelling story respecting dragon age's themes and nuance. i even predicted that mythal abused and groomed solas, but they executed it so badly that i can't believe these people get paid to write stories lmfao

i literally feel so betrayed, so hollow, so sad, i don't know what to do. i literally just uninstalled veilguard after finishing it. i spent 10 years imagining how the story would go, but id never imagine it would be THIS BAD.

the books, the content, so well-crafted, and so well-executed, just to make a stupid game that breaks all of its themes and leaves them meaningless. what the hell was happening in bioware when all the side-content has so much complexity and nuance (mostly tevinter nights), what happened lmao

[chanafehs]

can you tell us more about your rook, and her relationship with asma??

*tucks hair behind ear* well if you want to know...I know DA4 doesn't care about any lore I'm creating but Manat was orphaned during the Mage-Templar war and was discovered by Asma and her companions during their journey through the hinterlands. Manat was only 15 at the time but held off against Templars and Apostates until being rescued - already showing promise as a warrior.

She was brought back to Haven and escaped to Skyhold with the rest of the Inquisition, eventually becoming a maid for a bit of coin. That's where their relationship takes off because Asma is the only one who can really get a word out of her. Josephine at some point insists that Asma as Inquisitor should take up a lady-in-waiting for appearances and to help with her daily tasks around Skyhold. Manat has no skills that would make her good for this role but Asma chooses her anyway, if anything it's more to keep an eye on her.

The relationship becomes less professional and more maternal before either of them can really realize it (Asma insisting she brush her hair, teaching Manat Elven, reading her books—education is important—and playing the occasional game together). Asma is a bit of a strict parent but Manat loves to push her buttons sometimes, she's a kid that's what they do.

Towards the end of Inquisition, Asma knows Manat has no family and nowhere to go so she promises the girl that she can come with her when all of this is over. Trespasser ends up pulling them apart - Asma can't be found for some months after the exalted council and by the time she returns, Manat is already gone. I don't know if you've ever seen that quote that's like "I'm not your mother" "I know that, do you?" because that's very them. This definitely won't cause problems between them in the Veilguard/sarcasm.

Thank you for the ask!🫶❤️

[dungeons-and-dragon-age]

ok sorry i'm just. ????

rant and spoilers ahead because i gotta yell into the void a little

first of and most of all. WHY does it sound like Solas front and center of everthing now??? Including both Inky's and Rook's stories/motivations???? Like okay i understand that Solas will inevitably be important in Rook's story and that's chill! We knew he was gonna play a part in this story! But why do they make it sound like half or Rook's purpose is just there to further Solas's story/character

and it quickly becomes clear that Rook will have their own unique relationship with Solas, as the Inquisitor did before them. I think what's been fun for us, too, is trying to build Rook as kind of almost a mirror of Solas.

Epler also acknowledges that the Inquisitor “obviously has a very personal relationship with Solas,” one that will need to be reckoned with in The Veilguard.

“And I'd say the Inquisitor, to some degree, feels guilty or responsible for what Solas is doing to the world. So while we're not going to get too far into details about what role they may play, they absolutely are somebody who is going to be interested and invested in the outcome of Rook's journey in The Veilguard.”

Why. are you telling us how our Inquisitor is supposed to feel about this?? When you play DAI you agree to play The Inquisitor, yes, but you don't agree to play someone who Cares About Solas. Like. Yes. I get that he is important. That much has been clear since Trespasser. And i'm ok with that! But how come you say "this is a game about Thedas and a world in conflict" and then also talk like this story is About Solas, Actually.

The other thing i absolutely do not get and do not like. At All

Those decisions are: who your Inquisitor romanced (with the options gender- and lineage-locked in the same way that they were in Inquisition), whether or not you disbanded the Inquisition, and whether you vowed to stop Solas or save him.

?????

No "who drank from the WoS"? No "who is Divine"? No "does OGB Kieran exist"? No "is Hawke alive" (Varric is there. SURELY he cares about this a lot)? No "what happened to the Mages & Templars"? No "were Wardens banned from the south"? Arent't those uh. Really Relevant Decisions???? WHY is one of the whole grand three (3) decisions that carry over if Inky wants to save Solas or not. I mean ok i guess i get it cus that was The Big Decision TM at the end of Trespasser but again. Why is that the big thing that matters. out of all the things that SHOULD matter.

There's not as many decisions you have made up to this point that have an impact on what's happening in Northern Thedas.

But it’s also part of the advantage of moving the setting up to Northern Thedas, Epler says, with the prior games in the series taking place in Southern Thedas, a significantly different region both geographically and sociopolitically.

Uh. Yeah they do. See above points and also some that i forgot probably. Northern and Southern Thedas don't operate independently from one another that's not how this works. Especially again with things like the WoS or the Divine decision. Also half our companions from the other games are from the north?? I get what you mean kinda and it's true to an extent but not like this. I understand wanting to do a soft reboot but the explanation is. Kind of shoddy

for one, the team focused on choices that they felt they could react to meaningfully – not just a cameo or one-liner.

“There's never a sense of, ‘Oh, that decision doesn't exist.’ But maybe we don't touch on it in this particular title,”

The. Cameos and one-liners are what make it special though?? You can't say "We want those stories to be personal." and then say you're not making any of those small decisions matter. And i don't mean matter as in having A Big Impact TM but i know that a lot of us LIVE for those small tiny nods to previous decisions that make the world feel actually alive and connected. I understand that we can't have full on-screen cameos or questlines or whatever for every little tidbit but not even. idk. Background convos about what's going on in Orzammar? Gossip about Ferelden's monarch? A line from Varric about Bartrand? Dunno man. Again not to mention the Big Things like Kieran. or the Well of Sorrows consequences. Or the Divine (which. yknow. is directly relevant everywhere except maybe Tevinter??). Those were always the things that made importing a worldstate so charming! because you could see the small little impacts that you have on the world. The tiny things like the line about the pigeons in Ferelden in DA2 or a wartable mission with Wade and Herren in DAI are so so special to me

[lostinthewiind]

Way With Words

Varric Tethras - Dragon Age

Genre: Fluff

Rating: All ages

➤ True to his nature as a renowned author, Varric has always been better at expressing himself through the art of written words.

The sound of Varric's quill scratching against parchment sent a chill up your spine—one that scratched a particular itch you didn't even know you had. Perched in his usual spot at the wooden table in front of the fireplace, you sat across from him, watching intently as he frantically worked to get everything down before he forgot even a single, minute detail.

"You don't have to release the book tomorrow, you know," you told him. "Take a couple of days to enjoy the fact that we saved Thedas. Surely that's deserving of a night or two off."

You could tell that Varric had only slightly registered what you had said, his quill faltering for a brief moment before continuing to whip from left to right across the page. Again and again. Flip the page. Left to right. Again and again. New page.

The fireplace crackling behind you lit up his face, basking his features in a warm, orange glow. In this light, you could see clearly as the wrinkles of his forehead deepened; and if you watched his facial expressions closely enough, you could tell which ones were permanent from age and which ones were temporary from stress.

When a pocket of gas escaped one of the burning logs with a loud pop, Varric's eyes shifted up from his work. In that moment, as his eyes darted toward the fire behind you before focusing on your face, you clocked the exhaustion he was trying so desperately to hide—or ignore. His gaze caught yours just long enough for you to notice the dull hue of his usual bright, brown irises.

He flashed a superficial smile before returning to his work. Word after word, he recounted the tale of the Inquisition from the moment he met you to the moment Corypheus was finally defeated.

"Varric." You reached across the table and caught his hand in yours. You felt as the tight muscles in his grip loosened. "Take a break."

Varric's hand twitched in your hold. "I can't. I don't want to forget anything important."

"That makes one of us." You exhaled slowly. "There's so much I wish I could forget. So much I have forgotten."

"Someone has to tell the story. Might as well be me." He smiled again, but this time it seemed more genuine. "Besides, no one else will give it the right amount of flair."

"I would expect nothing less from the legendary author of Swords and Shields." You chuckled. "I'm sure Cassandra is chomping at the bit to read about all the behind the scenes romances of the Inquisition you no doubt have all the insider information on."

That caused Varric to laugh, and finally, the rest of his body relaxed. Quill dropping onto the page, the sentence Varric had been in the middle of writing was left temporarily forgotten; the retelling of a past story was put aside for the making of a new one.

"I really don't know why she likes that garbage, but hey, I suppose there's an audience for everything."

"You're too hard on yourself. It's not that bad."

Varric quirked a brow at you. "Don't tell me you've read them?"

"I've read a few chapters."

Varric hummed, amused. "And?"

"I can see the appeal."

A bark of a laugh. "I never took you as a romantic, Inquisitor."

"I'm full of surprises."

"So I've come to learn."

Suddenly eager to get a sneak peak at you favourite author's newest work, you reached out and grabbed one of the first pages Varric had written. The ink was already dry, the scribbled words a duller shade of black than the newer pages.

Varric didn't protest. Instead, he watched intently as your eyes scanned the page. "Let me know if I missed anything."

"There's details in here that I don't even recall happening," you assured him. "But it's kind of bland. For a romance author, this isn't very flowery. Where's that so-called 'flair'?"

"Such a critic." Varric tried to snatch the paper away, but your sharp reflexes won. "This is just the first draft. Only the facts. The flair comes later."

"Thank goodness, because if this is how you end up describing me in the final copy, I'll hunt you down." You cleared your throat before reciting the words in front of you. "'Inquisitor. Small woman. Prisoner turned ally. Glowing hand.'"

Varric shook his head. "Like I said. The facts."

"Nothing about my bright eyes? My charming smile? Not even a throwaway line about how incredibly beautiful I am?" you joked as you relinquished the page so Varric could put it back in order with the others.

"This isn't that kind of book, Inquisitor."

You leaned back and felt the warmth of the fire on the nape of your neck. "Of course." You smirked. "But if it were, how would you describe me?"

Varric pretended he didn't hear you and instead went back to his writing. His pace was noticeably slower now though, more thoughtful. Something else was on his mind and he was having to think more about what he was jotting down instead of just letting it flow.

"I was a newborn in this world—a world I had lived in all my life, yet somehow I didn't recognize any of it. I stepped out of the fade, my memory lost and a glowing hand gained." You closed your eyes and described the series of events from your point of view. "I had just closed my first fade rift. I was overcome with fear and excitement, a slurry of emotions that had no business mixing. When the possibility of being able to close the breach was mentioned, he spoke. 'Here I thought we'd be ass-deep in demons forever.' A man. A dwarf. Handsome, and I could tell he knew it from the way he showed off his abundance of chest hair for any and all to see. But my eyes were drawn first to his crossbow, the weapon he had used to save my life moments earlier; the weapon he would use to save my life more times than I could count."

When you opened your eyes, Varric was staring at you, eyes wide. Speechless.

"It doesn't have to be a romance for it to be romantic," you told him. "Life and death is just as beautiful as any love story."

Still silent, he swallowed hard. Then, grabbing a fresh piece of parchment, he began to write; this time with all the fervor he had possessed originally. Arm resting at the top of the paper, he shielded the words from your eyes.

Head resting in your hand, you sat and watched as he wrote. When he reached the bottom of the page, he stopped and handed it over. "Like any author, I'm better in the written format," he said.

You nodded and began to read.

"No," he corrected. "Out loud. Read it out loud."

"Okay," you chuckled. "'All hope had been lost and then she appeared, stepping out of the fade with determination etched into her features and bright eyes that held the future in them—the world's future ... my future. From prisoner to ally to friend, the more I learned about her, the fonder I grew.'"

You paused and looked up at Varric. He nodded his encouragement. "Keep going."

Your throat suddenly felt dry and your chest tight. "'She was beautiful. She still is beautiful. But she's also so much more than that.'" You were reading slower now, your breath catching on the words. As Varric reached out to take one of your hands in his, your grip on the paper with your other hand tightened. "'Anyone who knows the Inquisitor could tell you that she is smart, brave, kind, compassionate, and so many more wonderful qualities. But not everyone could tell you about the way her smile always reaches her eyes, no matter how exhausted she is, or the way she sleeps so lightly that the faintest gust of wind could wake her. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who gets to see the way she curls her hair around her finger when she's feeling playful. Then I pray I'm the only person who gets to see it, because the thought of anyone else making her feel that way causes a sickening feeling to snake its way through my veins. She is-'"

"She is the most incredible person I've ever met in my entire life," Varric took over, having memorized the words after somehow only writing them once. You suspected, however, that they had been within him for a long time. As his hand held yours firmly and the pad of his thumb ghosted over the inside of your wrist, you shivered. "And as things come to an end and time runs out, I think of the past and dread the future because for all of the brave things I've done by her side, I don't know if I'll ever be brave enough to tell her I love her."

You felt a tear fall down your cheek and moved to quickly wipe it away. "If you're that good with words, maybe I should read more of your books."

Varric smiled as he brought your hand to his lips and pressed a chaste kiss to your knuckles. "For you, I'd write down my every waking thought."

"You don't have to." You folded up that paper in your hand and tucked it into your pocket. "This is more than enough."

Varric let out a nervous chuckle. "You're killing me here, love. I gotta know if you feel the same way. Please, put an old man's aching heart to rest."

Standing up, you leaned across the wooden table and cupped his stubbled jaw in your hand and felt his entire being soften to your touch. "Of course, I love you too." You gently pressed your lips against his. With a relieved exhale, he melted into the kiss.

When you moved to pull away, his hand shot up to the back of your head and held you in place, lips ghosting over his, so he could savour the moment. "Just so you know, I'm not putting any of this in my book," he whispered. "I'd like to be the only person to know that you smelt like smoke and tasted like elfroot tea the first time we kissed."

"Cassandra will be so disappointed."

"Me? Disappointing the Seeker? That's never happened before." He grinned as his hand slid down from the back of your head to caress your cheek. "Now come here. I'm suddenly craving the taste of elfroot."

[kcwriter-blog]

Since there has been some discussion about how a young Lavellan might interact with Solas, I thought I would chime in with how an older Lavellan might interact with him.

My Lavellan is in her 30s. She has been a First for some time. That means she has been groomed for a leadership position since her teens. At her age, other clan members will be asking her for advice.

She may not be experienced enough to be considered a haren but she is as knowledgeable as any Keeper about elvish history. She knows herself. She knows her people. She is proud to be Dalish.

So she doesn't give a rat's ass what Solas thinks about the Dalish. At first he's just a weird elf who carries himself like one of the Dalish but doesn't even have a valleslin. She's been taught that non-Dalish elves are to be pitied because they have lost their way. Even as far back as Origins we have a haren telling our Warden that when the elves get another homeland it will be up to the Dalish to teach the city elves how to be true elves. So whether she likes it or not, her first impression will be that he is an elf but not a "true" elf.

So while she asks him his opinion, its not because she thinks he knows more, it's just curiosity. What do non-Dalish elves think about elven culture?

She may say that he "insults her people" but that just drives home the fact that she sees him as different. He isn't one of her people. He isn't Dalish.

What he says is irritating but she can forgive him because he hasn't spent much time with the Dalish and his few experiences weren't positive. He can say what he likes. She's heard worse from the shems.

However, being proud to be Dalish doesn't mean she is going to refuse knowledge just because what she has learned is different from what he is telling her.

Dreamers are important to the Dalish. They are rare but they should be listened to. She's also very, very intelligent. She knows the Dalish don't know everything. If they did, they wouldn't be trying so hard to put together the puzzle pieces that are all that remains of her culture.

She is a confident woman. She is mature. She understands her strengths and weaknesses. She knows it isn't weak to ask for help. She knows leadership is about collaboration. In some ways she is more mature than Solas.

So she listens. She compares what she knows with what he tells her and decides for herself if it makes sense or not. She doesn't believe him just because he is older than she is. She takes in knowledge from many sources including the ruins they visit, the scrolls and books in the library, what other elves say. She analyzes the data and comes up with her own set of beliefs.

She views Solas as someone in need of protection. She tells him she will protect him anyway she has to because she knows the shem could imprison him, make him Tranquil or execute him if they feel like it. She is lucky. She has a seat at the table. She chooses to exercise her power by protecting him.

Solas isn't a mentor to her. Yes, he knows a lot and yes, he gives her good advice but so do Cullen, Josephine and Leliana. He is a colleague. She may trust him more because he is an elf. She may spend more time with him because they share some of the same experiences (as far as she knows) but at the end of the day he is basically someone who can help her do her job. It can even be argued that when she becomes Inquisitor she becomes his boss.

Solas may start out thinking of himself as a mentor or at least a teacher but it is not their dynamic. He gives the information freely. She can take it or not. Does he get frustrated if she doesn't listen to him? Sure. I get frustrated with my friends when they don't listen to me but I can't make them.

I think by the time they get to Skyhold they are on a more equal footing. They respect one another. They may even think their first impressions were wrong. And they may fall in love.

I've always seen their relationship as an equal one with a lot of give and take. As players we know who he is but our Lavellans do not. So there is no real power dynamic at play. He isn't her boss. He knows a lot and gives her advice but that does not put him in a position of power over her. He acknowledges that every time he apologizes or concedes to her.

How will she deal with him 10 years later? She has had a lot of time to reflect. She was in a position of power. She realizes he is right. Sometimes there are only terrible choices left. She had to leave Hawk or Alistair in the Fade. Hell, one of her decisions resulted in the destruction of her clan.

So she understands that Solas once had to make a terrible choice. He regrets it the same way she regrets some of her decisions. She knows there are things she would do differently if she could. She would give anything to change some things.

She understands how being in power erases your identity. She knows that sometimes you can become the person everyone believes you to be even if you don't want that. She knows what he went through. She went through the same thing. She knows the world will decide who you are without ever getting to know the real you. She also knows that you can never really leave all of that behind.

With age sometimes comes wisdom. She understands him better now than she did when they first met.

She has had time to learn more about the Veil. She can see that its presence has caused a lot of suffering. She has come to the conclusion that Thedas would be better off without it. She just wants it done in a way that results in as few lives lost as possible.

She has had time to reflect on their relationship. She was very angry at the time but has let it go. She understands why he broke it off. She understands him well enough to know that he is broken and not capable of having a real relationship until he has dealt with his shit.

Her feelings for him have actually deepened because she understands him better now. So when they meet again she isn't going to be plotting his downfall. She's not going to jump into his arms either. There is a lot of water under that bridge. From her perspective they have a job to do. They can talk about their relationship afterwards.

Whatever happens they will deal with it like the mature adults they have always been.

[explodingchantry]

OK I found the source and, genuinely, what the fuck?

Varric is apparently an important character within veilguard but we don't get to express whether the inquisitor left his best friend to die in the fade?

The wardens are a big part of veilguard but we don't get to express what the inquisitor did with the southern wardens?

MORRIGAN is apparently an important character in veilguard and we don't get to express whether 1. We had her have Kieran and 2. If she drank from the well or not?? You know this important decision that was meant to impact the rest of the drinker's life, and was meant even more vital when inquisition revealed Flemerh was Mythal? I literally just replayed that quest and they genuinely make a huge point out of this decision being life altering. But it's not, is it, if both characters who could've drank show up in the next game but the effects of the well aren't present.

"northern thedas is a blank slate" is such a weird take. What happens in ferelden and orlais (and the free marchés if we bring da2 into it too) absolutely matters to the rest of thedas. These things ricochet upwards. You literally choose who leads orlais, one of (if not The) most powerful and influencial nations in all of thedas. You get to choose the fucking DIVINE. Yeah sure that might not matter in Tevinter, but it matters everywhere else?? The rest of northern thedas follows the chantry even if they might not be as horny for it as the south????

And that's only speaking of inquisition choices. I already made a post somewhere about how very few of the decision input on the keep mattered in dai and how filling the keep often felt pretty pointless because of that. But at least the gender of the hof and who they romanced came up, and the leader of ferelden came up however briefly and flawed.

Honestly dragon age was never actually good at bringing up and taking into account old choices. Da2 had a good excuse for it (set in a completely different country whilst the choices the hof made were central to ferelden only, and hawke being just Some Guy who wouldn't get involved in a lot of influencial stuff the hof had a hand in. And even THEN there's plenty of background dialogue about ferelden that does mention it.) Dai does have a lot of nods to a few things; the ruler of ferelden shows up in in hushed whispers, or if you kept Alistair/recruited loghain they show up for here lies the abyss and might even have a discussion with Morrigan with whom they had a CHILD with. If hof romanced leliana she mentions them quite a bit. Morrigan can show up with the full ass child she can have in Dao and that's probably one of the biggest differences the choices you made make. Some other decisions from Dao are referenced; like who rules Orzammar. And as for da2 it's very true that a lot of the decisions made are much harder to reference due to being more interpersonal, so it does make sense to an extent that the decisions are referenced there through simple dialogue (though that dialogue is flawed as hell.) If it doesn't like some of your past choices it'll retcon it, like if you killed leliana in Dao. Or like, for example, just a random example, you got one of the Dao endings where Cullen goes mad, kills mages and runs away. Never mentioned again that one. Weird.

Bioware loves to give you big influencial choices to make you feel important only to turn around the next game and kind of shrug their shoulders as they do the bare minimum with them. And now, don't get me wrong - some of these choices are really hard to integrate. We basically can never go back to Orzammar because its king changes everything. It's too much to take into account and would change what quests and storylines the player experiences.

But then don't fucking write it that way to begin with lol. At least with Dao you can give the benefit of the doubt with things being meant to be part of a single story - but by da2 they knew dragon age was a franchise and inquisition was written and made with the knowledge there would be another game afterwards. They could actually plan things out and figure out if maybe a choice you could make would require too many resources to implement in the next game, and thus just not actually give you the choice in inquisition. Because the divine, for example, makes a HUGE difference. I fully get that it would be extremely difficult to take all three choices into account - reference them but make them not so integral that the story of the game can only happen if one of those was made.

But then don't make us fucking able to choose who the divine is. I'd rather not have as many influencial choices in a game, but have them referenced and have them matter, than... This.

Who you romance. Whether you disbanded the inquisition. And what you think of Solas. Nothing from Dao, nothing from da2, and only this from dai. That's a fucking joke. It's a joke. A spit in the face.

Many of the fans will have replayed the series in anticipation for veilguard, carefully crafted their choices to be their main world state. Especially with the nice little sales you've had during veilguard's promotional period. And now, only now, after they will have done all of that, you spit in their faces and say that none of what they did in the past games mattered. So why should I finish my inquisition replay? Why should I care?

Meanwhile, plenty of events from the books and comics will not only be referenced but be integral for the story. Fuck you for playing the main games, you're stupid for thinking they mattered. Obviously the static stories of our external media is more important. Totally respectful of the fanbase to do that.

[legoprime]

With everything that's been coming out for DATV I decided to watch all of the DAI trailers and gameplay previews, just to get an idea of what parts of the game they told us about ahead of time to try and manage my expectations...

Man they FULLY lied to us about some of this stuff.

Gameplay preview #1: Here's the Hinterlands, mages and templars are fighting, we're gonna make our way to Redcliffe and look at the castle in the distance which is where we need to go next in our quest. Now we're going to fast travel to a camp elsewhere and fight our way past a dragon to get to some docks and a boat. End of video! We're not saying we're taking that boat to the castle, but we're not NOT saying it.

Gameplay preview #2: We're now in Redcliffe Castle! Our friend Dorian has joined us because his old master Alexius is involved so this quest is important to him. We find and rescue Leliana (who looks like her normal self, not future Leliana) and the narrator is like "We sent Leliana here and she got captured and tortured, this is our fault and will have consequences".

We then proceed through the entirety of In Hushed Whispers except with all mention of time travel edited out. This makes it seem like Dorian and the Inquisitor were just somewhere else together for a while, maybe Alexius tried to kill them and they got away and then snuck back in? Whatever Alexius did is Really Bad though because the whole world is now basically ruined. Our companions sacrifice themselves for us in the end which is Dark As Fuck since these are real events and not a fake future, ohh boy you'd better be careful who you take with you to Redcliffe because they could die! Video ends on Leliana's face as she's about to be killed.

Those are the only gameplay previews I've watched, but even the trailers have this vibe to them. "Here's a careful edit of all of the darkest moments that possibly happen in this game to make it look Really Dark." They actually turn down the contrast on the environment sometimes to make it look grayer than it is.

Actual spoiler-wise though, I think the biggest things I learned were 1) we're going to see Redcliffe again, and 2) red lyrium shards are around. Pretty much everything else was bullshit framed just right to make it look like we were seeing a quest with High Stakes.

I don't know what that means in comparison to DATV marketing, but I'll be interested to find out how much they're actually showing us versus how many things they're omitting once the game comes out.

[spawnofbhaal]

Some speculation re: Solas and his role in the story, based on what we know from that article:

I think he somehow becomes trapped either in the Fade prison where the Evanuris previously were (which would be very bad since it's full of Blight) or in the new one where he planned to move them (which hopefully isn't Blighted, but . . .)

So unfortunately I don't think he will be visually in the Lighthouse while we are using it. I think the Lighthouse is definitely in the Crossroads, not the Fade. I'd love to be wrong about him not being there in person, but IMO they are keeping Solas off the board for the beginning of the game (because he is too powerful to be a player while Rook gets established). I think he will be an advisor of sorts and will help guide Rook from the Fade.

However, I don't think he is going to be sitting idle. There are multiple elven tales where Fen'Harel escapes a trap, either by "chewing off his own tail" or by pitting his enemies against each other. IMO this stuff is foreshadowing that he will indeed escape at some point, but at a cost (giving up some of his power? becoming Blighted? We still don't know if the knife he was using in the ritual is the lyrium idol or if that's something still to come).

I also don't think Solas is going to be perfectly aligned with Rook. At the start of the game they have to work together, but Solas' goals remain and he doesn't have any reason to particularly like Rook (yet). Solas spent a year with the Inquisition, even potentially befriending the Inquisitor or falling deeply in love, and still left to pursue his goal and has spent the last 10 years doing so. While I think Rook's relationship with him will be important like the Inquisitor's is, I don't think Rook is going to change his mind by themselves just because they can (maybe) speak telepathically. There is going to have to be more to it, and I think the Inquisitor's relationship with Solas will play into how open Solas is to Rook's influence.

(Also to really speculate I've seen Solas fans who playtested the first part of the game express anxiety about redemption, which signals to me that he does something naughty at some point instead of being a stable ally, lol. Hopefully it isn't killing Varric, but IMO it's more likely he tries to sacrifice Rook like a chess piece at some point. I'm 100% a Solas redemption truther, but I don't think it will be simple or easy like he's suddenly just toothless).

So, while I think the Evanuris will be the main villains to defeat, I also think Solas will dance between ally and antagonist throughout much of the game. He is a trickster/anti-hero/anti-villain character, after all. The mid-game is always a great point in terms of story beats for the protagonist to have a major setback (like Haven to an extent, Spellhold in BG2, Act 3 in Rogue Trader, etc.) so I look forward to seeing what happens then and how the story pivots.

[rookinthecrownest]

Discussion about romances + expectations under the cut (I'd put it as like..mildly critical, but also coming from a place of understanding?). As usual, will tag as such so you don't have to engage/read on if you don't wish to. I always invite open discussion, just keep it respectful (as I will endeavour to do so myself).

This is going to be a bit of a ramble, so I apologize if my thoughts are not clearly laid out like they should be.

I think I've found the reason why I (and maybe others), feel that the romances in Veilguard feel a bit... idk, hollow, at times (not BAD!!! just feeling like there could be MORE). And that's because of the trap of expectations. I may also be speaking completely for myself here.

Anyway, let's rewind to 2014.

Be me, 10 years ago. You're not really a gamer, but indulge in action RPG's casually.

See a commercial for this hot new game coming out called Dragon Age: Inquisition. Be intrigued by the character designs, but know nothing about the world. Come to find out it's part of a trilogy. So naturally, you buy the first two games and play through them before playing the third.

Be amazed, and completely hooked on the characters, the lore, the world, the darker elements and themes. It becomes your favourite game series of all time.

But you had no idea that you could romance any of the companions going into the experience. And man, does it fundamentally rewire your brain chemistry to fall in love with cRPG and get ridiculously attached to your Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor.

So, you romance Alistair first because he's funny as hell, and has a really interesting story/character arc. Then you romance Zevran, and love that too - he's charming and suave and awkward and funny. Then you go onto DA2 and romance Fenris and Anders, and each of those romances pack their own emotional gut punches. Then it's finally time for DAI, and predictably, you go for Solas (a veritable slow burn that spans TWO games), Cullen, and partially (I never finished those playthroughs lol) Blackwall and Dorian.

I had no idea you could romance companions going into these games. It was a pleasant surprise! It always felt like an important part of the story, while not overshadowing the main plot. There was enough material in the codexes, the cutscenes, and party banter to make each romance feel complete and whole and awesome and nuanced.

And then, like some of you I suspect, I read an article that touted Veilguard as "The Most Romantic Bioware Game Yet", and I thought - "Wow, if they're saying this then the romances must be something else", given the quality of the previous romances you've experienced in these games!

But you get to the game - and while you're having fun, it definitely leans more into the ARPG style where romances feel a bit more pushed to the side in order to tell a certain story than the traditional Bioware/Larian RPG experience you've come to love.

Which is fine! Again, once I stopped thinking of Veilguard as a classic Bioware CRPG, and more like GOW/The Witcher, I found I was able to appreciate it a lot more for what it is. Things have to Happen A Certain Way for the narrative to work, and that's not a bad thing. DA2 was similar - it was a harrowing, personal tragedy about the Hawke family and their struggle to survive in Kirkwall.

Just like DA2, there are aspects of Veilguard that make me glad things happened the way they did. I'm not mad that Rook has so much dialogue without a ton of player input and you can't 'be evil' - because the game doesn't make sense if you can. At its core, Veilguard's narrative is centered around Regret, after all - you can't have an evil protagonist running around because Solas' Regret prison would never work (evil people don't generally tend to regret their actions...)!

Now, if you're expecting a long-winded, fully researched academic breakdown of every romance I'm sorry but that ain't happening tonight lol. This is not based in any fact, this is all opinion.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but sometimes it feels like the romances in this game (and I say this with the biggest grain of salt as I've only done Emmrich and Lucanis' - and am going through Neve's now), are just missing....something, to take them from good to great.

I loved Emmrich's romance. I thought it was very well done. I think a lot of people would agree it's one of the stronger ones in the game - doubly so if you play as a Mourn Watch Rook (you get a TON of MW specific lines going this route, it's great). His side romance with Strife if you don't get together is very cute, I enjoyed it. But as superbly well done as it was, somehow, I wouldn't even put it in my top 4 Bioware romances.

With Lucanis' romance - whatever my hangups may be about how it was handled, certain parts of his romance were done excellently (even better than some of the previous Bioware romances, I'd say). You can read more about my thoughts on his romance here which is why I'm not going into detail about it. Unlike Emmrich's, I would put it in my top 4 because I fell in love with the character that much (both in the game but really, I've loved him since Tevinter Nights), and I've grown very attached to my first Rook and him as a pairing. I've seen others share a similar sentiment on here (and I hate to say it but I agree) - sometimes it feels like I fell in love with Rookanis despite the way it was handled, not because of it. I can't say that for many other romances. While it's been fun to think up a lot of HC/write fics/make art about those abandoned concept sketches and parts where I felt the game could have showed us more of their dynamic, I can't help but feel like his (and other) romances would have immensely benefited from even 1 or 2 extra small scenes to flesh it out a bit more if they weren't going to let us freely talk to our companions.

The issue with the romances might also have something to do with the pacing of the game itself. I think Act 2 is where the pacing goes a bit awry, before picking back up in Act 3 (which is great, I love it).

Sometimes I also felt that there was a little too much reliance on codex entries and party banter to tell the story of the romance rather than showing it explicitly through cutscenes. I think that's what makes the romances feel a bit truncated at times, compared to the previous entries? Some of the romance-specific party banter was so good, it probably deserved its own cutscene. But it's also highly dependent on the party you have, and it's easy to miss/not trigger. I remember absolutely living for the cutscenes in the first three entries and I can't explain why I feel like, subjectively speaking, Veilguard just has less romance content (this may not be objective reality - I haven't compared the amount of romance specific content head to head with other games).

I also couldn't tell you why I feel DA2 doesn't suffer the same problems as DATV in terms of romance interaction - because you can't freely talk to your companions in that game either. Yet somehow, it always felt like I was getting enough of them to not notice that. I do miss being able to chat my LI's ear off and ask them questions about their life/their views/etc. like I could in DAO and DAI. I think it's a shame we can't because the companions in DATV are SO interesting. I want to ask them all a billion questions about their lives/stories/etc even if they're not my love interest. The party banter in this game is immaculate but being able to talk to them individually about this stuff would've been SO nice. I feel that I've missed out on SO MUCH of these characters just because I didn't have two of them in my party at the same time!

Anyway, I need to wrap this up.

In closing, perhaps, if I hadn't read that article about how it was going to be Bioware's most romantic game ... maybe I wouldn't feel this way? I think it sent my expectations through the stratosphere, and that's no one's fault but my own. Not Bioware, not EA, mine.

I know that this game's development cycle was a unique sort of hell that the other games didn't suffer. To go from Joplin -> Morrison -> Veilguard. To have so many of the original staff leave the team when Joplin got scrapped. To have to pivot from Live Service and then back to single person RPG. More lay-offs. It's a miracle this game got made. I'm happy I can sit around thinking about it. And I hope its successful enough that we get DA5 so we can all sit around dissecting that in 5-10 yrs time.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the Veilguard romances for what they are. I'm enjoying them more I play and discover additional banter/codex/etc that I missed the first time around. Like any Bioware romance, there are spots where they hit their stride, and spots where they falter a bit. When they hit their stride they knock it out of the fucking park. But when they falter, you can really feel it. Romance is hard to write! And you'll never fully please everyone.

But a small part of me wishes I'd gone in blind, and checked my own expectations a bit.

Maybe you agree, maybe you don't. Tell me about it. What was your experience with the romances? Did you also read that article and get your expectations up?

I hope this makes sense.

Kind regards good fandom folks,

Keep the discussion respectful. And please don't use this post as an excuse to just blatantly hate on the game.

-Rookie

[apostacism]

Full respect to Trick Weekes but I don't entirely fuck with the "Solas mirrors" thing. Like that may be the intention behind the writing but from a game execution standpoint, it's just not possible to fully realize. You can be perfectly respectful to him and still have him come at you with "you're the stupidest bitch who ever lived thank you for proving to me how worthless your world is" just by 1) making decisions he hates and 2) not interacting with him very much.

Let's put aside the issue of whether he's right to hate the decisions he hates, because it doesn't matter. From a "ego and pride" standpoint, which is supposedly what Solas is reacting to vs humility, all of the Inquisitor's decisions should be weighted equally. At the end of the day they're making huge decisions on behalf of other people, and there's responsibility in that no matter what those decisions are. There's always some ego involved in saying "I know this is right and so that's what I'm choosing."

So not interacting with him very much. There is nothing inherently prideful or egotistic about not seeking out conversation with Solas or taking him around with you. He clearly has more knowledge about the Breach than anyone else, but there's no particular reason to ask him about elves (particularly if the Inquisitor is one), Corypheus, or himself, for an Inquisitor who doesn't want to get to know him. And not wanting to get to know him is not an unequivocal symptom of ego. Sometimes you don't like a coworker very much and so you nod when you pass them in the halls and are civil in conversation but don't seek them out socially. As far as asking about the Breach goes, you get a Slightly Approves for it, which can be easily outweighed by lots of Greatly Disapproves decisions.

It is easy and very possible to rack up 7 or so Slightly Approves by being polite and humble towards Solas and in general in early cutscenes/conversation, wipe them out by allying with the Templars, and then free-wheel joyfully down into Bitch He Hates by declaring the Inquisition for faith and allying with the Gray Wardens without ever approaching him in a spirit of pride or ego. Solas can easily be the aggressive and argumentative one in that relationship, prompted only by an Inquisitor politely and with great uncertainty making choices he thinks are wrong.

To be clear, I don't think that's wrong or that it makes Solas bad. I think it's perfectly fair to judge someone on the merits of their choices, and that when someone again and again makes choices you think are short-sighted and unworthy of respect to dislike them for that. I think Solas is a thoughtful and compassionate person and I by and large agree with his opinions on most situations. I think there's value in becoming upset with someone who repeatedly acts against your own values, regardless of how nicely they present themselves. But that simply isn't mirroring. That is Solas having a perspective and responding to his own perspective, not Solas responding to the Inquisitor's behavior.

And it goes the other way! I have also played a determined, confident Inquisitor hated by Cassandra for his unshakeable commitment to his path and total lack of regard for her and her opinions who was Solas' best friend because he and Solas always agreed about the right thing to do. It's not about pride and it's not about humility, it's about Greatly Disapproves and Greatly Approves.

And that's just... how approval mechanics work. It's a video game. It would certainly be possible to create convoluted approval mechanics which also interact with your characters' attitude in other conversations, but those are not the approval mechanics that DAI has. It's fanfiction to say that Solas' attitude towards the Inquisitor is a reflection of their attitude towards him. It may be more likely that an Inquisitor who is a self-important dick to Solas also makes choices he hates... it may not. I have no data on how other people play DAI and I could not possibly say. I certainly believe that's what Trick Weekes wanted. But Trick Weekes' intentions are not the reality of the game, and in the reality of the game that premise just doesn't hold up.

[crossdressingdeath]

DAI does that with a lot of things. Morrigan gets to claim to be a Elven expert, even though you know that is far from the truth if you've played Origins where she didn't know shit. Cullen gets final say in his dialogue options despite you knowing that he's lying. Grey Wardens gets shit on and the Inquisitor can wildly overstep.

DAI has this weird mix of a) expecting you to have read all the books/comics so that they don't have to explain anything and b) assuming that you haven't played the previous games so they can try to rewrite what happened.

Yeah, the required reading for DAI was ridiculous. WEaWH is always the big one because most of the others you can get by without it (even Cole's backstory isn't necessary to appreciate and understand the character, and enough of it comes up in-game to get by), but knowing what Celene and Gaspard did is kind of fucking important, Bioware. And then even when Celene purging the alienage comes up it's used as a mark against Briala for being in a relationship with her at the time even though if I'm understanding the excerpts I've seen of TME Briala breaks it off as a direct result of the purge and (as Dorian rightly points out) that'd be more Celene's scandal than Briala's anyway. Like, they try to make Celene purging the alienage into Briala's crime because she was sleeping with the empress at the time and that's just... ugh. But it's like, I would argue that it would be fair and honestly best practice to assume that people playing the third game in a series have played the first two games? DA has an overarching narrative even if the connections aren't particularly close, if someone wants to start partway through they can but the writing should expect people to be familiar with the games' stories. Maybe have some codex entries summarizing the previous games or a little intro cutscene, but... I don't know, I'm worried about the fact that apparently DAV doesn't need you to have played the first three games when literally all the setup for it is in DAI. Expecting people to have played all the games in a narrative-driven RPG series and not to have jumped in partway through is fair! Expecting people to have read five supplementary novels and two coffee table lore books to understand the plot is ridiculous. At least Tevinter Nights and The Missing so far seem to only be relevant to DAV in that they show some glimpses of what's been going on between games and give us a point of reference for some of the new characters...

The thing that gets me with DAI is that the game really wants you to side with the Templars whether it makes sense or not. Like... let's take the choice between mages and Templars as an example. The game wants you to side with the Templars. It really does, it tries its best to dissuade the player from siding with the mages if you go that route (Cullen's little "Oh... it's so dangerous... we shouldn't do it..." routine is notable when compared to Leliana and Josie, both of whom favour the mages, being very professional about you picking the Templars), it does its utmost to claim that the rebellion was unwarranted when it absolutely was not, the rebels are constantly framed as weak or mean or evil or stupid while the Templars were just misled (by... a guy who told them he'd let them murder all the mages and left out the "in service to Corypheus" bit, they still joined his little walkout to murder people, but the game doesn't get into that), it even lets you switch quests well past what should've been the point of no return if you're on the mage route (WHY CAN YOU SWITCH AFTER LEARNING THERE'S A FUCKING MAGISTER IN FERELDEN TRYING TO ENSLAVE A BUNCH OF MAGES, BIOWARE, WHY THE FUCK IS THAT AN OPTION) whereas with the Templars you can't even learn what your advisors' plan for getting you in alive is until you're locked in. And I'm not going to lie, CotJ is legitimately the better quest. I did it once to see and god damn it is quality, I don't dislike IHW but... yeah CotJ is definitely stronger.

But then you actually look at the story and... why the fuck would you side with the Templars? They left the Chantry because the Divine told them not to murder people. That's explicit, people tell you that repeatedly. They're making excuses for it, but there's always an acknowledgement that... yep, that's why the Templars left, they wanted to kill people and were mad about being told no. Leliana (the most familiar face among the advisors and given Cassandra's previous appearance was threatening Varric and Cullen's was playing yes man to Meredith for nine years and only changing sides once she became a threat to him/because not doing so would mean fighting Hawke Leliana's the one people are most likely to want to side with) is pro-mage and dismisses Cullen's claims that the Templars could help close the Breach as speculation. Which... it is. This situation is completely unprecedented, no one knows what's going to happen. But given mages are incredibly powerful and Templars are repeatedly portrayed as mostly useless in any sort of real danger that doesn't involve children or indoctrinated Circle mages (it is not a coincidence that the only people locked in the tower in Broken Circle who survive with their minds and bodies intact without the demons actively choosing to let them live for funsies are mages; the only Templar who's alive and unpossessed is Cullen, and the demons very obviously could've killed him at any time and just chose not to because they were having fun toying with him) I'm gonna say the mages are a safer bet. Also because... they invited Quiz. That could be a trap, but you know what's definitely a trap? Walking into a fortress full of heavily-armed mage killers who openly want you dead. Meeting with the Templars is really, really stupid (especially if you're a mage) and you don't even learn the plan for getting you inside unharmed until you actually select the quest. Also that plan is basically just "if there are witnesses with societal power the Templars can't murder you unprovoked" because reminder: the Templars are the absolute worst. Why would you ever want these people around. And then if you meet with the mages first like "Well I'll figure it out once I've heard what they have to say, I don't have to commit if I do things this way so I might as well" you learn that there's a Tevinter magister serving an evil Tevinter cult just chilling in Redcliffe and why the fuck would you go to the Templars at that point this needs to be dealt with. The game wants you to side with the Templars but it gives you no reason to do so, I really wonder sometimes if the writers weren't talking to each other at all.